On December 15, 2025, a three-judge national security panel in Hong Kong found pro-democracy newspaper Apple Daily founder Jimmy Lai guilty of conspiring to publish seditious materials and colluding with foreign forces. Police arrested Lai in August 2020 and shut down his newspaper the following year.

In the verdict, one name is mentioned 160 times and vaguely accused of being the “foreign force” Lai was allegedly colluding with: Luke de Pulford.

In this episode, Luke discusses Lai’s conviction, explains why he is baffled by the verdict given his minimal personal connection to Jimmy Lai, and what he believes the international community should do to advocate for human rights in Hong Kong.